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	<title>Comments on: Ricochets toward stability</title>
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	<link>http://kanga.nu/~claw/blog/2009/01/16/game-projects/muck-and-brass/ricochets-toward-stability/</link>
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		<title>By: GamesOnTheBrain</title>
		<link>http://kanga.nu/~claw/blog/2009/01/16/game-projects/muck-and-brass/ricochets-toward-stability/comment-page-1/#comment-127</link>
		<dc:creator>GamesOnTheBrain</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Jan 2009 21:47:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kanga.nu/~claw/blog/?p=288#comment-127</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;I understand that there are two round-ending limits. It seems, though, that the average number of actions taken per round in a 3 player game would be significantly different from the number in a 5 player game, despite the two limits.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;In other words, wouldn&#039;t a round in a three player game be far more likely to end due to the first limit (2p &gt; 5 months), whereas in a five player game, the round would more likely end due to the second limit (2 exhausted actions)?&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;I played around with the numbers and if I calculated it correctly, in a 3 player game, it seems there would be at least 7 actions and at most 11 actions per round, and in a 5 player game there would be at least 11 actions and at most 14 actions per round.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;That&#039;s a fairly substantial difference. I wonder what effect that will have on the game.&lt;/p&gt;
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I understand that there are two round-ending limits. It seems, though, that the average number of actions taken per round in a 3 player game would be significantly different from the number in a 5 player game, despite the two limits.</p>

<p>In other words, wouldn&#8217;t a round in a three player game be far more likely to end due to the first limit (2p &gt; 5 months), whereas in a five player game, the round would more likely end due to the second limit (2 exhausted actions)?</p>

<p>I played around with the numbers and if I calculated it correctly, in a 3 player game, it seems there would be at least 7 actions and at most 11 actions per round, and in a 5 player game there would be at least 11 actions and at most 14 actions per round.</p>

<p>That&#8217;s a fairly substantial difference. I wonder what effect that will have on the game.</p>
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		<title>By: J C Lawrence</title>
		<link>http://kanga.nu/~claw/blog/2009/01/16/game-projects/muck-and-brass/ricochets-toward-stability/comment-page-1/#comment-125</link>
		<dc:creator>J C Lawrence</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Jan 2009 21:23:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kanga.nu/~claw/blog/?p=288#comment-125</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Yup, Muck &amp; Brass accomplishes similar ends with two round-ending limits:&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;ol&gt;
&lt;li&gt;Two players have used more than 5 months&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;Two actions are exhausted&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;/ol&gt;

&lt;p&gt;The balance between those two conditions maintains an action limit balance across player counts.  That said the three player game is quite a bit different to the four or five player game.  I&#039;ve not tried six players yet and the theory is weak there.  There are strong disadvantages to being late in the turn order and it is possible that those penalties are simply too large in large player count games.  Seven players is clearly too many, the penalties are too large, but six is either right on the edge or just over it.  It is hard to say.&lt;/p&gt;
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yup, <a href="http://kanga.nu/~claw/blog/category/muck-and-brass/" >Muck &amp; Brass</a> accomplishes similar ends with two round-ending limits:</p>

<ol>
<li>Two players have used more than 5 months</li>
<li>Two actions are exhausted</li>
</ol>

<p>The balance between those two conditions maintains an action limit balance across player counts.  That said the three player game is quite a bit different to the four or five player game.  I&#8217;ve not tried six players yet and the theory is weak there.  There are strong disadvantages to being late in the turn order and it is possible that those penalties are simply too large in large player count games.  Seven players is clearly too many, the penalties are too large, but six is either right on the edge or just over it.  It is hard to say.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: GamesOnTheBrain</title>
		<link>http://kanga.nu/~claw/blog/2009/01/16/game-projects/muck-and-brass/ricochets-toward-stability/comment-page-1/#comment-122</link>
		<dc:creator>GamesOnTheBrain</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 17 Jan 2009 22:32:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kanga.nu/~claw/blog/?p=288#comment-122</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;One thing that Wabash does well is keep the approximate actions per round equal regardless of the number of players. Have you tested the action selection mechanism with different player counts?&lt;/p&gt;
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One thing that Wabash does well is keep the approximate actions per round equal regardless of the number of players. Have you tested the action selection mechanism with different player counts?</p>
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